1st. My 95 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo will just cut off while driving. but after coasting to the side of the road it starts without any assistance. my machanic said he can't find the problem on the computer because "your problems are SOFTCODE problems that are not recorded. So he is bleeding my bank account form one stupid attempt to the next. you name it, we've done it.
Something new...My 95 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo will not start. It will just keep turning over. i hit it with starting fluid and it starts.
And now my machanic said "we will do a vacume test on the fuel line".
Does this make any sence to anyone? i feel like i am being raked over the coals. thank you for ant advice you can give.
Cj2176 is correct, we need a lttle more info. Sounds like it will need a new fuel pump or something related to it. Since it starts on starting fluid it has compression and air and spark, just no fuel. Fuel pumps can just stop working while driving, and if not working obviously will not start. No caodes will be set for a fuel pump not working. If it cranks but does not start have someone pound on the bottom of the fuel tank with a fist or small rubber mallet lightly (don't damage the tamk) while your cranking the engine. If it starts, the fuel pump module in the tank is bad.
Testimonial: "great imformation. The Jeep is at a NEW shop as i type. I said Nothing to him except use the code reader please. "
I miss-spelled code (caodes, fat-fingered the keyboard). The PCM does not monitor the fuel pump itself and there is no code for the fuel pump failing. Did it start after tapping on the tank? And the fuel pump is in the tank, the labor time should be about 1.5 hours to replace and you can do some calling around and find out how much a new module is.
A crank shaft position sensor can intermittantly fail. However, if the sensor is inoperative the engine will not start even on starting fluid. I have never heard of a "throttle choke lid" and your vehicle is fuel injected so there is no choke. I am wondering why the mechanic you are using didn't read codes when you first went to him? An idle control valve can let the engine stall while pulling up to a stop light but not while driving down the road. Here is why I think it is related to fuel delivery, you said it would crank over and not start until you hit it with starting fluid. Starting fluid is just another source of "fuel". If it has no spark due to a crank sensor failure or any other reason it will not start when you add starting fluid. Tapping on the fuel tank simply "jars" the comentator if the brushes in the motor which have lost contact, usually due to oxidizing on the copper comentator from sulfers in the fuel which have an affinity for copper. But it has to be non-functional at the time to do this test. An 02 sensor will NOT cause an engine to stall while driving down the road, it simply sends input to the PCM in order to make small fuel trim adjustments and it not active at all when the engine is cold (open loop). I wish I could connect the factory scanner we have, it allows us to read the PCM at board level. Perhaps finding a new shop or a dealer that can access data that aftermarket scanners can't would be a good idea. Our shop charges 1 hour at a time to diagnos problems and you will be informed about our progress after each hour. After 3 hours are spent in diagnostics any additional diag time is free untill the problem is found. I would exspect no less from any shop I would ever go to. Endless diagnostics are rediculus and only shows lack of knowlege of the systems.
Oh, and an added note on the crankshaft position sensor cost. The sensor should be roughly $100 and it takes about an hour to replace it. So if your mechanic says it's substantially more than $200 he is not being honest with you. Also you can have the ASD relay (auto shut down relay) checked as it controls the fuel pump actuation. I am also not finding any factory data relating to fuel filters being damaged by fuel, even with methanol added to the fuel.
First, I have never seen a design that requires a transmission to be moved to get to a crank sensor. It simply unbolts and slides out of a rubber grommet. Someone who knows what they are doing can do it in 20 minutes. Book labor time is .8 hours, that is 40 minutes. Tell him to show you his "labor guide" justifiying what he is charging you. As far as the engine smoke test, I am not sure what he was looking for. A "smoke" test is used to find evaporative systems leaks related to emmissions control. The throttle butterfly (valve you can see inside the throttle body) usually do not seal well enough to stop smoke. If (for example) the throttle butterfly were to stick open slightly, the only thing you would notice it a higher than normal idle. I don't know what to tell you, I would find another tech, someone who has knowledge of how things work not just how to sell time and parts. Oh, and on a side note, the liquid used in a EELD (smoke machine) is dirt cheap. We buy it by the gallon and it costs about $15.00. This gallon will last the year so the cost to use the machine an a car is about 1 or 2 cents.
Not in NJ, sorry. I wish we were able to look at your vehicle and give you an HONEST diag and repair with a repair guarantee.
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I had a problem similar to this with a 91 Cherokee Laredo several years ago. It would quit sometimes at a stop light, but would start right up and be ready when the light changed. The last time, it would not start after setting in a store parking lot for about 30 min...actually it would turn over and try to start, but quit immediately. It turned out to be an defective fuel pump relay - it only worked part time! A replacement cost about $10.
Testimonial: "nice lead and right on point. an excellent idea. would of been nice if it was thaT easy. but i think it is the fuel pump yes?"
OK if it was a sudden kill as if the key had been turned off then this is not a fuel problem at all. This is an ignition problem. Try to locate the ignition module and have it tested. I'll bet you will find the problem.
Oh and for someone to charge $1,000 to change a fuel pump is ridiculous. Those are the people that make it hard for a mechanic to earn an honest living. This procedure should cost $500 at its worst.
I wouldn't use the mallet just yet. LOL. the o2 sensor can cause this but the check engine light will stay on constantly if that is the problem. It is there to help the ecm to determine when to add more fuel or reduce the fuel. The idle air speed solenoids is a step in the right direction as well as the crank sensor. Have the tech check them before replacing them. This step is important because when electrical parts are installed just to troubleshoot then the parts house will not usually take them back.
My computer has been down and I have just finished reading the posts that have occurred seance i've been gone. This is a problem that requires a bit of trouble shooting so the info that any of us here give you is only what we can do without seeing your car. It sounds to me that you are in serious need of a new mechanic. I'm glad that while i've been out that you have had the help of what seems to me to be a true technician. This is an honesty based business and is too often corrupted by folks. He is raking you over the Cole's. I absolutely agree with Hotr. Try to find someone that is not going to continue to charge you for his in-ability to diagnose this problem.
awesome.......!
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Unplug wires to computer and put electric grease on it and zip ties them to prevent from to get loose and replace both O2 sensors
I have a jeep grand cherokee larerdo 95. When il warms up it dies out. I can only turn it on in neutral. and dies in reverse, then on the freeway it jerks the it stops. then jerks again.
Check the fuel pump presure if it is a couple of pound belove the required presure it will not start without the aid of starting fluie.
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a sudden kill like key was turned off
interesting thing, i have rubber mallet and we will see the results. will keep you posted..
what do you mean : " No caodes will be set for a fuel pump not working." ??
what do you mean : " No caodes will be set for a fuel pump not working." ??
he said about 1,000 dollars for a fuel pump. becasue it is built into the fuel tank.
CJ2/HotR ?great answers thanks. it has not failed yet so i have not used the mallet yet. I will have my "ignition module" tested first...
and then the following items were listed as the most probable cause here with others like me. If you can look at these and assuredly tell my to scratch one or two off, I would appreciate it.
1. Ignition module
2. Rubber mallet (if i can get it at stall mode)
3. Idle air control motor
4. Crank position sensor
5. Fuel pump fuse/relay
note: why can?t it be the fuel filter? Because my Mechanic said the Gas would destroy it once a year and he would like to do it again. ? wow! Even I think that sounds funny.
I will be back in touch ASAP. Dan
I left out a very important part i think. my jeep has a very rough IDLE most of the time even when warm. Could it be the "02 Sensor". And should i check the "idle air control motor" after i check the 02Sensor? or are the basically the same?
well somehow he explaned away everything accept the crankshaft position sensor or the fuel pump due to the added problem of Needing Fuel Starter fluid to start it sometimes.
we are having the vacum test on the fuel line done today and then i will know more. I will post the results to help others.
We did a fuel pressure test and found that it has close to normal pressure at around 45. But drops well below 44 when sitting overnight. This causes a few extra revolutions when trying to start but otherwise is not a problem.
Also did a SMOKE test on the engine vacuum/pressure and had some leakage at the throttle assembly and the smoke was really coming out of the air filter because the throttle choke lid is open and will not close all the way. He said this would cause a bad idle and poor performance but STILL NOT THE ROOT CAUSE I AM LOOKING FOR WHY I STALL ALL THE TIME.
I AM STILL LOST AND A LITTLE MORE BROKE.
He also put the hand held computer on my jeep and got code 11 at the very start, "CRANK shaft positioning sensor". The sensor was hovering at 700 but it would drop to 670 and quickly come back to 700. IS THIS THE PROBLEM??? As expensive as this is , I don?t care , I just to know if this is my problem/.?
He said they have to pull back the transmission in order to get to the CSsensor / why its expensive.
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We found oil all over the new starter and coming from the oil sending unit or valve cover gasket. "Looks like you need a oil sending unit" or Valve cover gasket?. *Funny thing, as i read my receipts and found he REPLACED both of those within 2 year.
Other: REBUILT DISTR./SPEED SENS./ HALLAFAC SWITCH/OIL SENDING UNIT/ A FEW VACUME HOSES. /one left F. $230.00 motor mount for bad idle?/ and through in a pint bottle of special oil treatment juice for $30.00 . I consider myself average in intelligence but in the heat of the moment a good salesman that is a mechanic can sell anything.
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now i have to go in reverse and ask him to refix the oil sending unit/gaskets. i think this might come to a head. i will keep you informed and i thank you.
dan
"Throttle choke lid" <---where the air filter meets the engine. Where the carburetor would be on a much older vehicle. the Air intake manifold has a lid that will close and open for air mix.
he said this sticks open a little as smoke was pouring out of it and the air filter located behing my headlight when he did the smoke test.
(smoke test was a small machine that pumps a light special "exspensive" smoke into a sealed engine to see pressure leaks)
is your shop in NJ?
hotrodshop and cj2176,
THANK YOU VERY MUCH and I will take your advice i was almost ready to give up on finding an honest and helpful mechanic. You guys are bound for success, ... . On this note i was wondering if the following problem is my sole problem that causes the stall at any speed about once per month.
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*june 13 - I was able to do a test myself yesterday. The jeep refuses to start even with a good crank. So I slowly rotated the Ignition Key several times from On to Off and back again without attempting to start it. Then I turned the key and it started and has been starting since. The answer to my problem is a bad vacuum seal on the fuel pump. This stops the gas from returning to the fuel tank from the fuel line. Leaving my fuel line empty and not able to immediately start the engine.
sudden kill like key was turned off
you said "but quit immediately".
So mine will not even start a little. It just turns over and over. if i turn the key i can hear the fuel pump prime, and sometimes it does not prime.
you said "but quit immediately".
So mine will not even start a little. It just turns over and over. if i turn the key i can hear the fuel pump prime, and sometimes it does not prime.
Let me start by saying -The mechanic came recommended by my Family Doctor I see regularly and I was Ham$tringed alone for a year with a stall issue. After reading a bogglers ?How to check your Engine Code without requiring any tools? AMAZING !! .
I finally went to another mechanic and said to him "I think it is the crank shaft sensor?" - code 11 and 12 ??, that?s it.
Its been 2 weeks since it failed to start that morning and the replacement -cps, its been flawless but still have that rough Idle - bogging a little when cold - thing going on, but expect the 180000 miles /replacing the throttle sensor?
Does the engine sputter down slowly then die or is it a sudden kill like key was turned off?
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